Justus For All

“The one big black mark against Israel, in my mind, is their settlements in the occuppied territories.”

have you studied much about the war in which isreal came to occupy those territories.

They won that land in a war fair and square. They could have masscared every single person that was not a jew, but they did not. They tried to return those people to their countires, but their countires did not take them back. Creating refugees.

Secondly, do you know the defination of a plaistine refugee according to the UN?

If you don’t , lets just say that i could have a kid that could be consider a refgee if i found the right woman (i am a white american, with no ethnic conections to the area)

Israel did win the land war fair and square. I am well aware of that.

That does not in my opinion give them the right to build their settlements in the territory. It certainly does not give them the right to mascre every non-jew in the territories.

That arguement would justify the holocaust, and every other atrocity commited by anyone, anywhere. Might alone does not make right.

Might does not make right, agreed.

I am just pointing out how nice the are to let them live, most imperial regimes don’t do things like that.

If you’re going to make the argument that Israel should give up the occupied territories and they have no right to build anything there, then I’m sure you would advocate tearing down Dallas, Houston and San Antonio and giving Texas back to Mexico. We did “occupy” the territory by war, after all. And, much like Israel’s territories, we’re about to be outnumbered there. Or we could go with the radical solution that’s proposed now and then and let Texas become its own country. Hmm.. reminds me of another proposal for the middle east.

Israel was pushed into a war they didn’t start, and those that lost are still… bitter.

“The one big black mark against Israel, in my mind, is their settlements in the occuppied territories. Why this plan will not fully rectify the situation, it is a step in the right direction. A step witch once taken, I believe will lead to a complete dismantlement of the illegal settlements and hopefully, peace.”

You see isreal is in a tough position.

They decided to take the moral high road, and not masaccare the people who lived in the land they counqured (better than what the early americans did).

People get all mad and see the land as a blackmark (beliving what the media feeds them about Isreal), even tough this issue only exist because isreal did the right thing.

Isreal is held to impossibly high standards (or is that basis against the jews).

In the past many things were once considered moral that we no longer consider moral today. Slavery, the subjugation of women, ethnic cleansing and wars of conquest.

I support fully Israel’s right to exist. I support the fence between Israel and Palestine. I support their right to deal firmly with any terrorists who attack them or their citizens.

I might would even be persuaded to support a single Israel in their current boundaries if they gave the same rights to all people in their territory. Israel does not want to do this. Israel wants to remain a Jewish state, and giving the Palestinians in the occupied territories rights as citizens would change the nature of their democracy. Israel has always considered the West Bank and the Gaza strip as land they are occupying for security reasons and not a part of the Israeli Nation.

As such, they have no business building settlements in that region.

Given these realities, the two-state solution is the only chance for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The settlements are an obsacle to this peace, which would be to the benefit of both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Therefore, they were a mistake to build and they should be dismantled.

I do not believe that the Palestinian leadership has any desire for peace with Israel. However, the strategic reasons for occupying the West Bank and the Gaza strip are mush less relevant today, if they are relevant at all any more. While Israel’s neighbors do not love her, she is not likely to be attacked again as she was in the past.

Abandoning Gaza and the West Bank, and removing an excuse for the palestinian plight, will make Israel more secure now, and hopefully, will eventually lead to a democratic and free Palestine.

Bill, I must strongly disagree with your statement that WE are about to be outnumbered in Texas because white people are going to be a minority there.

Black and Brown people are American too. Yes, some of these people are not American citizens, and I would like to see stronger border control to prevent illegal aliens from entering our borders for security reasons, but even the illegals are American in their hearts. That is why they have come. America is a nation of immigrants and that is our great strength.

Knowing you, I know you are not racist, but the way you presented that arguement did not sound good.

“While Israel’s neighbors do not love her, she is not likely to be attacked again as she was in the past.”

I don’t know about that one, if america pulled out all here support for isreal…what would happen…i think nuclear war, but then again they have made peace with some of their neighbors (jordan i know of for sure).

Also, I agree that the settlements impead peace, so therefore should be dismantled (and a two state soultion, should then follow).

But seeing how Isreal took over the land, i still think that they can do want they want with the land, but dismantling the settlements should be their decsion not, forced on them by the world’s bodies.