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	<title>Comments on: Some more thoughts on Intelligent Design</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/</link>
	<description>None Sine Causa</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RFTR</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>RFTR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>But exploring those holes, in every case in scientific exploratory history, has resulted in more holes.

I think ID leaves room for one to say "at the root, somewhere, is an intelligent creator," as those holes continue to appear, and you delve into them looking for more and more information.

Just because you think God did it doesn't mean you stop trying to figure out HOW He did it.  You'll never get there, but you'll get closer and closer for all eternity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But exploring those holes, in every case in scientific exploratory history, has resulted in more holes.</p>
<p>I think ID leaves room for one to say &#8220;at the root, somewhere, is an intelligent creator,&#8221; as those holes continue to appear, and you delve into them looking for more and more information.</p>
<p>Just because you think God did it doesn&#8217;t mean you stop trying to figure out HOW He did it.  You&#8217;ll never get there, but you&#8217;ll get closer and closer for all eternity.</p>
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		<title>By: The probligo</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1700</link>
		<dc:creator>The probligo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1700</guid>
		<description>Personally,  and this is the one reason why I have never - probably never will - posted on ID or creationism,  the whole idea of the "supreme creator" is one that I just can not swallow.

In other words,  the whole argument boils down to simple belief.

"I believe in God and creationism" versus "I believe in the objectivity of science".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally,  and this is the one reason why I have never - probably never will - posted on ID or creationism,  the whole idea of the &#8220;supreme creator&#8221; is one that I just can not swallow.</p>
<p>In other words,  the whole argument boils down to simple belief.</p>
<p>&#8220;I believe in God and creationism&#8221; versus &#8220;I believe in the objectivity of science&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Justus</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1699</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Justus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1699</guid>
		<description>IF there was some sort of intelligent intervention that has caused biological diversity, I don't know that that would be the end of science necessarily (no if the intelligent intervention was a supreme all powerful being it might.)

What should we do if, after looking at everything, consensus does emerge that some sort of intervention would be required to explain life?  Would we stop scientific inquiry into those areas?  I don't think so, I think that if the majority of scientists were to decide that (and they haven't but many theories have been unpopular) I think that scienctific exploration into how such intervention happened would increase.

It certainly wouldn't be scientific to deny evidence just because the answer the evidence gave would make further investigation very hard.

The point of this post though, was that a student who had a good grounding in ID would also, of necessity, have a good grounding in evolution.  The most you could say against teaching ID then would be that it is a waste of time.  Perhaps it is.

We teach a lot though that can be considered a waste of time.  Some think anti-drug education is a waste of time.  Others think that there is no reason to read Shakespear.

I am pretty content to let democratic majorities in a community decide what is, and what isn't a waste of time for their kids to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF there was some sort of intelligent intervention that has caused biological diversity, I don&#8217;t know that that would be the end of science necessarily (no if the intelligent intervention was a supreme all powerful being it might.)</p>
<p>What should we do if, after looking at everything, consensus does emerge that some sort of intervention would be required to explain life?  Would we stop scientific inquiry into those areas?  I don&#8217;t think so, I think that if the majority of scientists were to decide that (and they haven&#8217;t but many theories have been unpopular) I think that scienctific exploration into how such intervention happened would increase.</p>
<p>It certainly wouldn&#8217;t be scientific to deny evidence just because the answer the evidence gave would make further investigation very hard.</p>
<p>The point of this post though, was that a student who had a good grounding in ID would also, of necessity, have a good grounding in evolution.  The most you could say against teaching ID then would be that it is a waste of time.  Perhaps it is.</p>
<p>We teach a lot though that can be considered a waste of time.  Some think anti-drug education is a waste of time.  Others think that there is no reason to read Shakespear.</p>
<p>I am pretty content to let democratic majorities in a community decide what is, and what isn&#8217;t a waste of time for their kids to learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Katinula</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1698</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1698</guid>
		<description>That is exactly right.  ID doesn't explain the holes in evolutionary theory, it plugs the holes with an unscientific theory and could, quite possibly, make students think that exploring those holes and what they mean is a futile exercise.  Exploring holes in scientific theory is what leads to more scientific discovery.  You can plug any unexplainable hole with a theory that a higher being must have been responsible, however, you wouldn't get very much advancement of knowledge in the world.  ID, if it belongs anywhere, belongs in philosophy, critical thinking or religion class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is exactly right.  ID doesn&#8217;t explain the holes in evolutionary theory, it plugs the holes with an unscientific theory and could, quite possibly, make students think that exploring those holes and what they mean is a futile exercise.  Exploring holes in scientific theory is what leads to more scientific discovery.  You can plug any unexplainable hole with a theory that a higher being must have been responsible, however, you wouldn&#8217;t get very much advancement of knowledge in the world.  ID, if it belongs anywhere, belongs in philosophy, critical thinking or religion class.</p>
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		<title>By: GaijinBiker</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1697</link>
		<dc:creator>GaijinBiker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2005/08/30/some-more-thoughts-on-intelligent-design/#comment-1697</guid>
		<description>The problem is not the concept itself that life on earth was shaped by an intelligent designer.  The problem is that once you've stated the ID hypothesis, there is very little science you can do with it.

You can't do experiments to determine the nature of this supposed designer or how he/she/it operates.  You can't refine or falsify aspects of the theory.  All you can do is accept it.  

How did the human eye gain its complex structure?  Intelligent design.  How did bacteria develop spinning flagella?  Intelligent design.  How did cellular structures came into being?  Intelligent Design.

Evolutionary biologists can't fully answer these questions in step-by-step detail, but at least they acknowledge that they &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; questions.  ID proponents see them as answers.

It's for this reason that ID doesn't belong in science classes, &lt;i&gt;even if it were true&lt;/i&gt;.  The phenomenon it describes is simply not capable of being analyzed or explored by scientific methods.

If some people prefer to believe that an intelligent designer is at work behind the scenes, that's their right.  But there is nothing scientific about such a belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is not the concept itself that life on earth was shaped by an intelligent designer.  The problem is that once you&#8217;ve stated the ID hypothesis, there is very little science you can do with it.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t do experiments to determine the nature of this supposed designer or how he/she/it operates.  You can&#8217;t refine or falsify aspects of the theory.  All you can do is accept it.  </p>
<p>How did the human eye gain its complex structure?  Intelligent design.  How did bacteria develop spinning flagella?  Intelligent design.  How did cellular structures came into being?  Intelligent Design.</p>
<p>Evolutionary biologists can&#8217;t fully answer these questions in step-by-step detail, but at least they acknowledge that they <i>are</i> questions.  ID proponents see them as answers.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s for this reason that ID doesn&#8217;t belong in science classes, <i>even if it were true</i>.  The phenomenon it describes is simply not capable of being analyzed or explored by scientific methods.</p>
<p>If some people prefer to believe that an intelligent designer is at work behind the scenes, that&#8217;s their right.  But there is nothing scientific about such a belief.</p>
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