Comments on: Group vows ‘jihad’ over pope’s speech

By: Dave Justus

Dave Justus — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:49:15 +0000

If you haven’t seen a debate occuring in the Muslim world you haven’t really looked very hard. True, it is often obsured on the front pages, but it is happening.

Read this Iraq the Model post for example.

There is a debate, sometimes silenced by thuggish tactics, but the debate has been steadily growing since 9-11 and the thugs are having a harder and harder time enforcing silence in much of the middle east. Sadly, this is balanced by them having greater and greater success in much of Europe.

By: Patrick Lightbody

Patrick Lightbody — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:25:13 +0000

Dave,
I haven’t seen much “debate” going on in the Muslim world. It is sad, but the violence seems to be completely overpowering any other form of discussion. I have yet to see on the news any Muslim leaders ask their people to respect the apology by the Pope or tone down their anger, rhetoric, and violence.

I mean - first they asked for an apology. Then they got it, and yet the anger continues. What exactly is it that they want?

By: Dave Justus

Dave Justus — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:20:47 +0000

I don’t think we should over worry about offending someone, but that doesn’t mean we should behave in a boorish manner either.

I also don’t think that if it offends it must be true has a whole lot of logical consistancy either. I can imagine being offended by things about me that are true, but also about things that are false.

There are numerous debates going on here, these is a debate within the Muslim world, although from an outside perspective it seems that the violent are winning that one, at least by intimidation. Their is also a ‘debate’ between Muslims and others going on, and lastly there is a debate within the West on how to deal with radical Islam, how to even concieve of such a thing from within our secular worldview. I think that the Pope’s comments probably didn’t do much positive for the first two, but his entire speech, including the famous quote and the Muslim reaction to it, may have a profound impact in the third arena.

By: Pamela

Pamela — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:57:40 +0000

Everyone needs to rise above their fear of offending someone, get the heck away from the political correctness bullcrap and just say what needs to be said.

If it offends, then there is obviously some truth to the words. No one likes to be called out on the floor for things they are ashamed of.

What saddens me, is that the rest of the world will continue to point the finger at the Pope and chastise him for his words of offense, but completely ignore that this group of Muslims proved the Pope’s point.

When will the militant Muslims be held accountable for their actions by the rest of the world?

By: Patrick Lightbody

Patrick Lightbody — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:39:52 +0000

I think he could apologize (and thereby reduce risk of death by his followers) while still keeping the debate going.

Either way, the irony runs thick.

By: Dave Justus

Dave Justus — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:32:00 +0000

I am not sure if I agree that the Pope should have apologized. I don’t think that his choices in the speech were the best way to get across his point, but the point being made, i.e. violence is inherently irreligious, is a good one and one that needs to be addressed (the speech had other interesting points too, most of it was in fact a diatribe against too much secularism.)

Apologizing, at this point, may take away from the debate that I think needs to happen, basically whether violence to advance a religious cause can ever be justified. Muslims seem to be having a bit of trouble with this debate, and they need it. The Pope not apologizing might have helped this debate to happen.

Then again, as I said above the choice of words used were not the best to introduce this.

By: tsykoduk

tsykoduk — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:16:02 +0000

Hmm..

It’s really sad that there are folks who are that demented out there.

By: Patrick Lightbody

Patrick Lightbody — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:11:07 +0000

Yeah, pretty retarded. I think the Pope did the right thing by apologizing - even when he really didn’t have to. Shows that he was able to be above it all.