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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Pastor</title>
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	<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/</link>
	<description>None Sine Causa</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave Justus</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-502965</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Justus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-502965</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  I think that there are several ways one could look at the response.  

Aesthetically it was a great speech.  Well delivered and with stirring and evocative images.  

Sustantively it wasn't as great.  There were parts that I like, I think the acknowledgement of both black and white anger over where are racial policies have taken us is a point that needed to be made.  Other parts were less impressive.  I didn't like him bringing his grandmother into it, beyond it seeming to be a very rude thing to do to her, it was in my mind a very false equivalence.  Someone who is related to you by blood and has some racial prejudices is not the same as someone whose congregation you choose to join as they preach and spread racial prejudice.  Not the same at all.  

Perhaps even more, I disliked the central message that we need to put asside our racial divides (which is a good thing) so that we can properly focus on class warfare (which I don't agree with at all.)  That won't be something that is controversial in the primary battle however.  

I also found it interesting that Obama is now admitting that he heard Wright speak in this manner, where before he had denied it.  

From a horserace perspective, I don't think the speech will help out all the much.  Wright's stuff makes great negative soundbites, while Obama's speech wasn't so good at doing that.  

Obama's campaign has in many ways hinged on him being 'super-human' a perfect messianic figure above the ordinary weaknesses and flaws of a typically politician (he was allowed some human flaws, but no political ones.)  This episode has I think cracked that facade, revealing Obama as what he is, a policitian with many of the weakeness common to that class.  He is, I think, a pretty good policitian, both in being effective and being a good person, but a pretty good politician is not what the 'Obama Movement' wants, needs, or expects.  

I think this is the beginning of the end for Obama's chances this year.  However, I expect to hear from him again, and I think he will be a better candidate and a better choice then, without the messianic allure and with more substance to build a Presidential bid on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  I think that there are several ways one could look at the response.  </p>
<p>Aesthetically it was a great speech.  Well delivered and with stirring and evocative images.  </p>
<p>Sustantively it wasn&#8217;t as great.  There were parts that I like, I think the acknowledgement of both black and white anger over where are racial policies have taken us is a point that needed to be made.  Other parts were less impressive.  I didn&#8217;t like him bringing his grandmother into it, beyond it seeming to be a very rude thing to do to her, it was in my mind a very false equivalence.  Someone who is related to you by blood and has some racial prejudices is not the same as someone whose congregation you choose to join as they preach and spread racial prejudice.  Not the same at all.  </p>
<p>Perhaps even more, I disliked the central message that we need to put asside our racial divides (which is a good thing) so that we can properly focus on class warfare (which I don&#8217;t agree with at all.)  That won&#8217;t be something that is controversial in the primary battle however.  </p>
<p>I also found it interesting that Obama is now admitting that he heard Wright speak in this manner, where before he had denied it.  </p>
<p>From a horserace perspective, I don&#8217;t think the speech will help out all the much.  Wright&#8217;s stuff makes great negative soundbites, while Obama&#8217;s speech wasn&#8217;t so good at doing that.  </p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s campaign has in many ways hinged on him being &#8217;super-human&#8217; a perfect messianic figure above the ordinary weaknesses and flaws of a typically politician (he was allowed some human flaws, but no political ones.)  This episode has I think cracked that facade, revealing Obama as what he is, a policitian with many of the weakeness common to that class.  He is, I think, a pretty good policitian, both in being effective and being a good person, but a pretty good politician is not what the &#8216;Obama Movement&#8217; wants, needs, or expects.  </p>
<p>I think this is the beginning of the end for Obama&#8217;s chances this year.  However, I expect to hear from him again, and I think he will be a better candidate and a better choice then, without the messianic allure and with more substance to build a Presidential bid on.</p>
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		<title>By: probligo</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-501481</link>
		<dc:creator>probligo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-501481</guid>
		<description>How about giving us your thoughts on Obama's response?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about giving us your thoughts on Obama&#8217;s response?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Justus</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-499360</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Justus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-499360</guid>
		<description>As I said that is my suspician.  However, either Obama has a 'deep personal relationship' with his racist anti-american pastor, or he went to Church for other reasons.  I happen to think that the latter would speak better for his character then the former, but admitedly neither is good.  

&lt;i&gt;BTW does she regularly attend church? Has anyone checked the politics of the Minister there? Does he bite the heads off of poisonous snakes?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, Yes, No.  

We are not talking here about something a distant family member did.  Obama chose this church.  While their is nothing wrong with any personal religious devotion, the values and sentiments of this particular congregation do have political conotations and they deserve to be examined from that perspective, just as Huckabee and Romney had their religious views examined as to how they would translate into their poltiical views.  

Obama chose this church.  We are certainly justified in asking why he did so and what that says about him as a man.  

Also I don't think we deserved GWB, but thankfully providence saw fit to bless us with him anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said that is my suspician.  However, either Obama has a &#8216;deep personal relationship&#8217; with his racist anti-american pastor, or he went to Church for other reasons.  I happen to think that the latter would speak better for his character then the former, but admitedly neither is good.  </p>
<p><i>BTW does she regularly attend church? Has anyone checked the politics of the Minister there? Does he bite the heads off of poisonous snakes?</i></p>
<p>Yes, Yes, No.  </p>
<p>We are not talking here about something a distant family member did.  Obama chose this church.  While their is nothing wrong with any personal religious devotion, the values and sentiments of this particular congregation do have political conotations and they deserve to be examined from that perspective, just as Huckabee and Romney had their religious views examined as to how they would translate into their poltiical views.  </p>
<p>Obama chose this church.  We are certainly justified in asking why he did so and what that says about him as a man.  </p>
<p>Also I don&#8217;t think we deserved GWB, but thankfully providence saw fit to bless us with him anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: probligo</title>
		<link>http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-498961</link>
		<dc:creator>probligo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davejustus.com/2008/03/17/obamas-pastor/#comment-498961</guid>
		<description>"...more a desire to fit in politically in the Chicago environment that he got his start in."

Hmm?  Really?  Perhaps he is friendly with his local Pastor,  enough to consider him a friend.

Would you expect a Catholic to change his church if the Priest preferred the traditional Latin Mass?  Or perhaps it might be a problem if Hilary's religious leader was suddenly proved to have a secret life of some kind - BTW does she regularly attend church?  Has anyone checked the politics of the Minister there?  Does he bite the heads off of poisonous snakes?

Or perhaps you would expect the Queen of England to abdicate because of some very badly reported remarks by the Archbishop of Canterbury?

I know that the US is not a "religious State" (in the eyes of those who live there at least).  But really,  just how far does the sh!t raking have to go?  Did Bob McCain's great-great-great-grandfather never visit the local knocking shop?  Was Hilary's three times removed second cousin arrested for littering?  Is Obama really a Muslim?

Does it all really matter?

America will elect exactly the leader they deserve - as they did twice with GWB...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;more a desire to fit in politically in the Chicago environment that he got his start in.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm?  Really?  Perhaps he is friendly with his local Pastor,  enough to consider him a friend.</p>
<p>Would you expect a Catholic to change his church if the Priest preferred the traditional Latin Mass?  Or perhaps it might be a problem if Hilary&#8217;s religious leader was suddenly proved to have a secret life of some kind - BTW does she regularly attend church?  Has anyone checked the politics of the Minister there?  Does he bite the heads off of poisonous snakes?</p>
<p>Or perhaps you would expect the Queen of England to abdicate because of some very badly reported remarks by the Archbishop of Canterbury?</p>
<p>I know that the US is not a &#8220;religious State&#8221; (in the eyes of those who live there at least).  But really,  just how far does the sh!t raking have to go?  Did Bob McCain&#8217;s great-great-great-grandfather never visit the local knocking shop?  Was Hilary&#8217;s three times removed second cousin arrested for littering?  Is Obama really a Muslim?</p>
<p>Does it all really matter?</p>
<p>America will elect exactly the leader they deserve - as they did twice with GWB&#8230;</p>
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